Do you have to be good at drawing to be a good painter?

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Permalink Reply by Andrew66 on November 6, 2008 at 6:30pm

Define good. Drawing is, and always has been the foundation of good art. Of the previous examples, Warhol, Picasso, Monet, etc were all accomplished draughtsman. Even Pollack, at least before the drugs and alcohol sent a few too many brain cells belly up, was resonably facile with drawing. The question is really, do you need to be a draughtsman like Ingres to be a successful painter or do you just need the capacity to see form, dimension and value? Personally, I lean toward the latter option. There are those, especially over at The Art Renewal Center, but I hold to my view.

Even if you are geared up for abstract and/or expressionist work, you need to walk before you can run. You need, IMO, to be able to see and understand what your subject is, before you can reduce it to a successful abstract.

Andrew

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Permalink Reply by montanaartist on November 6, 2008 at 7:20pm

There are as many theories on this subject as there are elk in the mountains! :) Some people insist you have to be able to draw out what you paint. Others trace everything they place on canvas.

I don't think it matters how you like to paint, or how you begin your process.

I do believe you need to adhere to copyright laws and it's easy to google what the laws are. We need to use our imaginations and come up with something new, or get a camera and take our own photos and work from them, or purchase rights to use a photo from someone else. There's also an explanation of copyright law on the side bar of this forum.

So long as you don't break the law, go ahead and paint what you want, how you want to paint it! It's the end result and the enjoyment you receive from painting that matters.

I like to draw, but I draw with my brush, right onto the support I'm going to paint on. I like using the Betty Edwards, drawing on the right side of the brain, techniques. Once you pick that up, it's faster to draw right on the page, than it is to bother with tracing or copying something. Not saying I won't trace from my photo. Because sometimes I'm not in the mood to draw it out and I don't.
Donna

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Permalink Reply by Mad Capt. Madman on November 6, 2008 at 8:31pm

To be considered a good painter, is good drawing skill a prerequisite???

Judging by the reactions of the people on this site, I GUESS I am considered a decent painter. I don't draw anything...I STINK at drawing. I try to draw a dog and it looks like a cow, I try to draw a cow and it looks like a fish. Like anything that people do, some are better specialized at some things than others. Just because a musician can play the trumpet doesn't mean he will be a great cello player too, even though both are musically related. I remember a certain great basketball player who thought he could be a great baseball player...he wasn't. Some people here do things with pencils that are simply unbelievable...but I bet they couldn't do the same with oils or acryls. If you love colors, work with colors. Concentrate on that one facet of art and be great at it. "Art" is a wide area with lots of things to be good in...you dont have to be good at everything...although drawing is considered a basic and being good at it helps...I guess.

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Permalink Reply by Andrew66 on November 6, 2008 at 10:53pm

I still don't see how copyright got involved in the OP question. The original question was if good drawing skills are a prerequisite to being a good painter. The truth is that it depends. If you consider good to be like J.D. Hillberry or Ingres, then the answer is no. There are several extreme realist draughtsmen that are awful painters. But if you concider good to be able to render values reasonable, and accurately portray depth, dimension and perspective, then the answer is yes.

Drawing helps you see artistcally. The better you see, the more capable you become at interpreting the world around you artistically. Sure, some professionals trace and project. But those who are long time successful illustrators and artists have adopted those shortcuts to meet deadlines. They started doing the work long hand and know from experience the pitfalls of those shortcuts and knows how to adjust the finished product accordingly. That is why you can tell the difference between the work of a professional that uses a photo after years of painting from life, and that of someone who only paints from photos. Some artists are facile enough, like Frank Franzetta, that the shortcuts are unnecessary and still work longhand.

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Permalink Reply by ReddWine on November 7, 2008 at 1:29am

Personally I feel it all depends on what you're painting.
So the answer would be yes and no.

Not everyone likes the same type of art anyway. Why stay with one style, when the world is so diverse?

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Permalink Reply by Andrew66 on November 7, 2008 at 6:03pm

Don't confuse the implicit definition of style with technique and artistic genre. An artist style is as unique as the artist him or herself. It is an individual calligraphy and bound to an individual's perception of the world. Far to often students of art waste years in the pursuit of a "Style" which amounts to an attempt to master one technique after another.

Any artistic vision, however realist, expressionist, or abstract, is ultimately best served by a solid foundation in the basics. And it doesn't get anymore basic than drawing. The earliest art was charcoal or earth pigments applied to a cave wall with a simple tool. Art is one of those rare occupations where you can't start where the last master left off, you have to begin at the begining and learn the basics of seeing and understanding with the artists mind.

Andrew

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Permalink Reply by David Stanley on November 20, 2008 at 6:01pm

"Drawing, sketching", Hmmm ... I am a decent sketch artist but am totally unable to do portraiture. Boy, I can draw a chair or a tree and stuff like that but, by and large, nope. I take photos or find photos by others that inspire me. I find pieces of photos and other paintings that inspire me. I will typically sit down with perhaps a half dozen photos beside me and begin. Of course, like everyone else, I select an appropriate background or sky to match a story I have in my mind. As my "story" progresses the background progresses. I move closer and closer to the viewer of foreground. I sketch nothing, Oh, sometimes I will lightly paint in rough shapes to achieve some type of composition and spacing but generally the picture develops straight from my mind usijng the side photos for reference to include specific details. I know other artists, real artists, will probably sketch a scene then follow it but that just doesnt work for me. Hope I have been able to help out a little. David

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Permalink Reply by Shula steiner on November 20, 2008 at 9:56pm

I think that drawing is like learning the ABC letters, some schools teach you the whole word's reading and some want you to know the ABC.. before opening a reader,
My opinion is that one should know the bases of everything he does, in painting it's lines, colors hues and perspective, - this includes some drawing too - in photography is light and depth of field and all sort of things on camera,
One doesn't have to be a master of it but knowing the rules helps when you want to build something of real value. There's a lot of discussion about "modern Art" people combining colors that are pleasing to the eyes and are nice as a design, but if you look carefully you'll see the difference between a good painter and a good artist - there's no doubt - I love a good drawing, though I am not able to do a portrait which bugs me, and sometimes when I see a drawing I know it can turn into a good painting - never did see the a painting that has no drawing base turn into a good drawing
That is not to say, that when you have that base you should always use it, but when I do painting, that I use from my imagination, or from a photo, I have in the back of my head or somewhere in my painting hand the knowledge of drawing - I can feel it, without thinking about it

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Permalink Reply by Shula steiner on November 20, 2008 at 10:04pm

Andrew66 said:

Don't confuse the implicit definition of style with technique and artistic genre. An artist style is as unique as the artist him or herself. It is an individual calligraphy and bound to an individual's perception of the world. Far to often students of art waste years in the pursuit of a "Style" which amounts to an attempt to master one technique after another.

Any artistic vision, however realist, expressionist, or abstract, is ultimately best served by a solid foundation in the basics. And it doesn't get anymore basic than drawing. The earliest art was charcoal or earth pigments applied to a cave wall with a simple tool. Art is one of those rare occupations where you can't start where the last master left off, you have to begin at the begining and learn the basics of seeing and understanding with the artists mind.

Andrew

I am sorry I did not read that comment before writing mine, you put my feelings in much better wording. So right!

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Permalink Reply by Eli on November 22, 2008 at 1:52pm

I can draw people........and thats all, I can draw.

lol. sad isnt it.

I am attempting to paint a landscape, having drawn it first of course.
My trees look like dehydrated french fries and my clouds look like cotton balls..... and ughhhh.
Do you have to be good at drawing to be a good artist ? Ive heard protocol say yes...... but.....
rules are meant to be followed........then broken it seems. going beyond the accepted.......
if you create something well.......... an artiste you are :)

(ps Im still practising to be one. If i ever get to draw a dog that doesnt look like a deformed horse or a cloud that doesnt look like marshmallow....... or a tree that doesnt look like its made of yesterdays mcdonalds.... then I will be an artist too :) ) ....... in the meantime......back to the drawing board (excuse the pun lol)


Mad Capt. Madman said:

To be considered a good painter, is good drawing skill a prerequisite???

Judging by the reactions of the people on this site, I GUESS I am considered a decent painter. I don't draw anything...I STINK at drawing. I try to draw a dog and it looks like a cow, I try to draw a cow and it looks like a fish. Like anything that people do, some are better specialized at some things than others. Just because a musician can play the trumpet doesn't mean he will be a great cello player too, even though both are musically related. I remember a certain great basketball player who thought he could be a great baseball player...he wasn't. Some people here do things with pencils that are simply unbelievable...but I bet they couldn't do the same with oils or acryls. If you love colors, work with colors. Concentrate on that one facet of art and be great at it. "Art" is a wide area with lots of things to be good in...you dont have to be good at everything...although drawing is considered a basic and being good at it helps...I guess.

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Permalink Reply by NormanM on November 27, 2008 at 7:39am

Michelle Thibault said:

Many painters dont draw, many drawing artist dont paint lol. There is more than drawing skills in a painting. you can draw like a God but have no sense of composition and color and lack knowledge in techniques. You might be good in drawing but have no inspiration and what you create is totally dull, too many factors are involved to point in only one direction.

Now drawing could be with a pencil or a brush but some planning is essential to the end result and drawing is part of that step.

But does it have to be GOOD drawing, Michelle?

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Permalink Reply by ReddWine on November 27, 2008 at 2:48pm

Most artists don't draw and most drawing artists don't paint.

I was going to argue that, but I think you have somewhat of a point.

I think I've drawn to completion about three pencil renderings. I do sketch my art on the canvas before I paint it, but I don't think that's actually; what that means.

I think I might agree with that one.

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